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	<title>Comments on: 25 years of GNU</title>
	<atom:link href="http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2008/09/02/25-years-of-gnu/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2008/09/02/25-years-of-gnu/</link>
	<description>My opinions only. I do not represent any organization in this publication.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Eric Oye</title>
		<link>http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2008/09/02/25-years-of-gnu/#comment-99770</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Oye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 12:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/?p=565#comment-99770</guid>
		<description>Thanks Mike for the information, now i only realize GNU having his 25th birthday, i'm a Linux Red Hat fans, i started playing with Linux for 2 small years only, and GNU really my favorite kernel. Oh ya Mike, do you think Linux can be as famous as Microsoft one day? I'm truly support linux to stand out more then others and perhaps can be develop in a really user friendly interface and infra structure for everyone. Thanks again for the information, Happy Birthday GNU and happy blogging to everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Mike for the information, now i only realize GNU having his 25th birthday, i&#8217;m a Linux Red Hat fans, i started playing with Linux for 2 small years only, and GNU really my favorite kernel. Oh ya Mike, do you think Linux can be as famous as Microsoft one day? I&#8217;m truly support linux to stand out more then others and perhaps can be develop in a really user friendly interface and infra structure for everyone. Thanks again for the information, Happy Birthday GNU and happy blogging to everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: gurdonark</title>
		<link>http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2008/09/02/25-years-of-gnu/#comment-99595</link>
		<dc:creator>gurdonark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 19:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/?p=565#comment-99595</guid>
		<description>Happy birthday to GNU indeed!

As time goes on, I come to favor more BY and far less BY NC ND or 
even BY ND. 

To paraphrase, I never worry nearly so much about someone profiting from my music as I do about nobody sharing in the experience of hearing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happy birthday to GNU indeed!</p>
<p>As time goes on, I come to favor more BY and far less BY NC ND or<br />
even BY ND. </p>
<p>To paraphrase, I never worry nearly so much about someone profiting from my music as I do about nobody sharing in the experience of hearing it.</p>
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		<title>By: pfctdayelise</title>
		<link>http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2008/09/02/25-years-of-gnu/#comment-99592</link>
		<dc:creator>pfctdayelise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 13:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/?p=565#comment-99592</guid>
		<description>@ Mike,
yeah, don't worry, I won't quote your word here as gospel :)

Having managed to watch the video (the Cortado player seems particularly buggy on Xubuntu - ironic that I remember it working better on Windows XP), it seems like a bit of a wasted opportunity. It starts out as if the viewer probably doesn't know how their OS is separate to their hardware (ie their computer "IS" Windows/Microsoft), but then goes on to say "You've probably heard of Linus Torvalds" and unbelievably, talks about the kernel! Did they really need to advocate on the GNU/Linux naming issue in an _introductory_ video intended for the general populace! I think the FSF are terrible at picking their battles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Mike,<br />
yeah, don&#8217;t worry, I won&#8217;t quote your word here as gospel :)</p>
<p>Having managed to watch the video (the Cortado player seems particularly buggy on Xubuntu - ironic that I remember it working better on Windows XP), it seems like a bit of a wasted opportunity. It starts out as if the viewer probably doesn&#8217;t know how their OS is separate to their hardware (ie their computer &#8220;IS&#8221; Windows/Microsoft), but then goes on to say &#8220;You&#8217;ve probably heard of Linus Torvalds&#8221; and unbelievably, talks about the kernel! Did they really need to advocate on the GNU/Linux naming issue in an _introductory_ video intended for the general populace! I think the FSF are terrible at picking their battles.</p>
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		<title>By: Crosbie Fitch</title>
		<link>http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2008/09/02/25-years-of-gnu/#comment-99590</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosbie Fitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 07:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/?p=565#comment-99590</guid>
		<description>I suspect that some people can only conceive of a derivation of a literary work as being a case of plagiarism, i.e. the work is not that of the original author, nor can be that of the deriving author, and thus inescapably misrepresents both authors and the original and derivative works.

Bunch of hogwash, of course.

It is peculiar to believe that in order to preserve the integrity of an author's works and honesty in all authors, that copying should be prohibited. That's back to front. The principle should be that as long as the integrity of authors' works are preserved and they are honest, authors should be able to freely copy from each other and build upon each other's works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect that some people can only conceive of a derivation of a literary work as being a case of plagiarism, i.e. the work is not that of the original author, nor can be that of the deriving author, and thus inescapably misrepresents both authors and the original and derivative works.</p>
<p>Bunch of hogwash, of course.</p>
<p>It is peculiar to believe that in order to preserve the integrity of an author&#8217;s works and honesty in all authors, that copying should be prohibited. That&#8217;s back to front. The principle should be that as long as the integrity of authors&#8217; works are preserved and they are honest, authors should be able to freely copy from each other and build upon each other&#8217;s works.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Linksvayer</title>
		<link>http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2008/09/02/25-years-of-gnu/#comment-99589</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Linksvayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 03:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/?p=565#comment-99589</guid>
		<description>Rob,

Great points.

pfctdayelise,

I doubt lack of an invariant section option in CC licenses led to use of ND in these cases as an ND like statement was used prior to the existence of CC and probably the FDL, AFAIK, and still is used. I'd argue that the practice of prohibiting derivatives is bad however one gets there -- CC ND, ad hoc ND, or GFDL w/invariant sections.

You're correct that acceptable use in practice may not follow the letter of licenses precisely (that also goes for the GFDL and probably many software licenses as well). Work title is probably one of the less problematic cases as the CC licenses say that the title should be used if it is supplied and in many cases it is either very natural to supply and use a title (e.g., a song) or to neither supply nor use a title (e.g., I'd guess a small fraction of photos have a meaningful title).

[In case it isn't clear from the domain name of this blog or its tagline "My opinions only. I do not represent any organization in this publication." ... well, I just wrote the tagline. And IANAL.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob,</p>
<p>Great points.</p>
<p>pfctdayelise,</p>
<p>I doubt lack of an invariant section option in CC licenses led to use of ND in these cases as an ND like statement was used prior to the existence of CC and probably the FDL, AFAIK, and still is used. I&#8217;d argue that the practice of prohibiting derivatives is bad however one gets there &#8212; CC ND, ad hoc ND, or GFDL w/invariant sections.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re correct that acceptable use in practice may not follow the letter of licenses precisely (that also goes for the GFDL and probably many software licenses as well). Work title is probably one of the less problematic cases as the CC licenses say that the title should be used if it is supplied and in many cases it is either very natural to supply and use a title (e.g., a song) or to neither supply nor use a title (e.g., I&#8217;d guess a small fraction of photos have a meaningful title).</p>
<p>[In case it isn't clear from the domain name of this blog or its tagline "My opinions only. I do not represent any organization in this publication." ... well, I just wrote the tagline. And IANAL.]</p>
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		<title>By: pfctdayelise</title>
		<link>http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2008/09/02/25-years-of-gnu/#comment-99587</link>
		<dc:creator>pfctdayelise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 00:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/?p=565#comment-99587</guid>
		<description>Well the FSF did author the GFDL, which contains that whole invariant sections thing. Since CC licenses don't have any similar allowance I guess they feel they have no choice but to use a license with a ND clause. 

What CC licenses specify and how they are used in practice (and what is seen as &lt;i&gt;acceptable&lt;/i&gt; use) is also another matter. While they may have specific instructions re: derivative works, chances are 99% of the time they're not followed too closely. As Mako pointed out to me at Wikimania, virtually no one even does attribution correctly -- because you're supposed to use the work's title.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well the FSF did author the GFDL, which contains that whole invariant sections thing. Since CC licenses don&#8217;t have any similar allowance I guess they feel they have no choice but to use a license with a ND clause. </p>
<p>What CC licenses specify and how they are used in practice (and what is seen as <i>acceptable</i> use) is also another matter. While they may have specific instructions re: derivative works, chances are 99% of the time they&#8217;re not followed too closely. As Mako pointed out to me at Wikimania, virtually no one even does attribution correctly &#8212; because you&#8217;re supposed to use the work&#8217;s title.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Myers</title>
		<link>http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2008/09/02/25-years-of-gnu/#comment-99585</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/?p=565#comment-99585</guid>
		<description>More seriously, ND doesn't prevent fair use/fair dealing quotation. So the argument contained in an ND original can still be quoted out of context and misrepresented.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More seriously, ND doesn&#8217;t prevent fair use/fair dealing quotation. So the argument contained in an ND original can still be quoted out of context and misrepresented.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Myers</title>
		<link>http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2008/09/02/25-years-of-gnu/#comment-99584</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/?p=565#comment-99584</guid>
		<description>I'm British. There are no jokes in the video.

(That was a joke. (Or was it?))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m British. There are no jokes in the video.</p>
<p>(That was a joke. (Or was it?))</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Linksvayer</title>
		<link>http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2008/09/02/25-years-of-gnu/#comment-99583</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Linksvayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 21:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/?p=565#comment-99583</guid>
		<description>Alek,

No argument with your first paragraph.

True, public licenses communicate norms and wishes at the same time they are legal tools, and there is some merit to using them as such. But given that they are legal tools, and the more restrictive ones do leave copyright restrictions largely in place, it is dangerous to use them to communicate norms and wishes. Better to use a permissive license and couple that with an extra-legal request to play nice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alek,</p>
<p>No argument with your first paragraph.</p>
<p>True, public licenses communicate norms and wishes at the same time they are legal tools, and there is some merit to using them as such. But given that they are legal tools, and the more restrictive ones do leave copyright restrictions largely in place, it is dangerous to use them to communicate norms and wishes. Better to use a permissive license and couple that with an extra-legal request to play nice.</p>
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		<title>By: tarkowski</title>
		<link>http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2008/09/02/25-years-of-gnu/#comment-99582</link>
		<dc:creator>tarkowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Sep 2008 20:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/?p=565#comment-99582</guid>
		<description>I think the people who push for the free cultural works definition are a different group inside the free software movement than the people who believe that while code should be free, cultural works don't necessarily need to be so.

On the other hand, the argument for using No Derivatives condition in order to preserve the integrity of the work hasn't been made strongly enough, or hasn't been heard well enough. I think that we like to think of No Derivatives as the bad boy of Creative Commons, by thinking of it as a limitation. But if we consider it a statement of principles, maybe there is some merit to it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the people who push for the free cultural works definition are a different group inside the free software movement than the people who believe that while code should be free, cultural works don&#8217;t necessarily need to be so.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the argument for using No Derivatives condition in order to preserve the integrity of the work hasn&#8217;t been made strongly enough, or hasn&#8217;t been heard well enough. I think that we like to think of No Derivatives as the bad boy of Creative Commons, by thinking of it as a limitation. But if we consider it a statement of principles, maybe there is some merit to it?</p>
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