Comments on: Collaborative Futures 5 http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2010/01/23/collaborative-futures-5/ My opinions only. I do not represent any organization in this publication. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 03:56:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: We’re leaving ground… (leaving ground…) – Topics in Digital Media – Spring 10 http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2010/01/23/collaborative-futures-5/#comment-100708 We’re leaving ground… (leaving ground…) – Topics in Digital Media – Spring 10 Tue, 20 Apr 2010 23:02:20 +0000 http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/?p=926#comment-100708 [...] Catherine Frost’s response to Mike Linksvayer on the post Collaborative Futures 3 [...] [...] Catherine Frost’s response to Mike Linksvayer on the post Collaborative Futures 3 [...]

]]> By: Catherine Frost http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2010/01/23/collaborative-futures-5/#comment-100698 Catherine Frost Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:08:52 +0000 http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/?p=926#comment-100698 Just saw this discussion and wanted to respond on the question of what I was trying to anticipate in the 2006 piece you cited on postnationalism. Definitely I had in mind a postnationalist future, in fact perhaps even something beyond that. I don't believe that the internet and the solidarities it generates operate as a kind of postie "echo" to national solidarities. I think it has skipped that engagement almost entirely (although there is good evidence that people favour nationally-based websites, I doubt this is for nationalist reasons, I suspect it has to do with server locations). My concern in the paper, however, was to see whether we could learn FROM the rise of national solidarities to understand how any new orders might take form. And we know from nationalities that exclusion is a powerful force for forging solidarity. So I take your point about the relevance of global communications providing a venue for new solidarities, including more progressive ones via-a-vis labour. I just suspect that consciousness very often follows real life realities, rather than the other way around (there may be very good reasons for this if you stop and think about Wittgenstein for a bit, but I won't go there right now). The only way I could see solidarities you're taking about emerge from the influence of the internet is if there was a kind of awakening to the potential for it to create truly disruptive solidarities that forced existing power structures to adapt in order to survive. In other words, if the global future really belongs to the developing world with huge populations of well educated people who by and large don't relate to the glossy consumerism of the internet, then they may use this very versatile tool in their own, more innovative ways. Which leaves everyone else playing catch up. And that catch-up process shifts power subtly but consistently in a new direction. This is what i meant about exclusions being at the root of new political communities Perhaps its best I left it there, but an interesting discussion... Just saw this discussion and wanted to respond on the question of what I was trying to anticipate in the 2006 piece you cited on postnationalism. Definitely I had in mind a postnationalist future, in fact perhaps even something beyond that. I don’t believe that the internet and the solidarities it generates operate as a kind of postie “echo” to national solidarities. I think it has skipped that engagement almost entirely (although there is good evidence that people favour nationally-based websites, I doubt this is for nationalist reasons, I suspect it has to do with server locations). My concern in the paper, however, was to see whether we could learn FROM the rise of national solidarities to understand how any new orders might take form. And we know from nationalities that exclusion is a powerful force for forging solidarity. So I take your point about the relevance of global communications providing a venue for new solidarities, including more progressive ones via-a-vis labour. I just suspect that consciousness very often follows real life realities, rather than the other way around (there may be very good reasons for this if you stop and think about Wittgenstein for a bit, but I won’t go there right now).

The only way I could see solidarities you’re taking about emerge from the influence of the internet is if there was a kind of awakening to the potential for it to create truly disruptive solidarities that forced existing power structures to adapt in order to survive. In other words, if the global future really belongs to the developing world with huge populations of well educated people who by and large don’t relate to the glossy consumerism of the internet, then they may use this very versatile tool in their own, more innovative ways. Which leaves everyone else playing catch up. And that catch-up process shifts power subtly but consistently in a new direction.

This is what i meant about exclusions being at the root of new political communities

Perhaps its best I left it there, but an interesting discussion…

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